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What Arizona's new gun law means for gun trainers

Posted - 7/30/2010 at 9:05AM by Naomi Pescovitz

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Naomi Pescovitz - View Bio

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TUCSON - Arizona's new gun law goes into effect this week. It means if you are 21 and older, you will be able to carry a concealed weapon without a permit.

Since permits are no longer required, training facilities that previously prepared gun owners for permits are learning to adjust.

"I've been a gun fan since I was a little kid," Martin Malkin said. He's one several gun owners spending a Wednesday morning at the Marksman Pistol Range.

For Malkin, the range is a place where he can perfect his skills.

"I just enjoy guns and using them for target practice," Malkin said.

That practice makes good business for Vinson Holck, manager at Marksman Pistol Institute. But Holck says the target here, is on something else.

"We do have an indoor range but our primary business is education, firearms education," Holck said.

One of the classes the facility teaches is the concealed carry weapon course, the class that used to be required if you wanted your permit in Arizona. As of this week, you no longer need the permit and Holck says less people are signing up for the class.

He is hoping gun owners will voluntarily enroll in safety courses, not only for his business, but also for themselves.

"I think people should get some kind of training, at least firearm safety," Holck said. "There's a lot of people who don't even practice shooting when they get a firearm," Holck said.

Holck says, overall, business is steady, but they are working to restructure other classes so they do not miss out on lost revenue.

"Will it impact the business, yes, to any significant effect, no," Holck said.

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RTalent (36 total posts | -247 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 6:22AM

This is a bad law that will only increase the violent crimes in AZ. It is obvious that brewer is in bed with the NRA!

Rating: -18

dixiesuzan (363 total posts | -408 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 7:17AM

I have seen no evidence that Gov Brewer has taken up random concubinage for personal pleasure or pecuniary profit with anyone nor with organizations such as the NRA. Arizonans are going to need this law. The AK 47 totting Mexican drug boys have Arizonans outgunned. In fact they have the US Park Rangers outgunned.

National Geographic News January 13, 2003 (7 year old news. Hugely worse today in 2010) http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0110_030113_organpipeclynes.html
Arizona Park Most Dangerous in US ? (quote) The park rangers at Arizona's Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument wear camouflage, carry assault rifles, and chase drug smugglers through the blazing desert. They're at the front lines of a violent border war?and they're losing.-

Today they have abandoned defense. They are outgunned.

At least 28 billion dollars of drug money flows into Mexico from the US each year, funding an army of illegal aliens that are now terrorizing American cities.

Rating: +1

Jury (1437 total posts | +3581 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 7:19AM

This is not a bad law, I comend Arizona and Gov. Brewer to restoring some of our enabled rights by the Constitution of the United States. Now having said that, I do think it is good for people to know how to safely use and store fire arms. Gun safety is important, people take safety for granted, all it takes is one mistake or mishap. There is no such thing as an accident when it comes to safety.

One definition of an accident; an unfortunate mishap, one causing injury or death.

When one takes the necessary precautions mishaps, accidents, don't occur. A gun safety class is the best precaution one can take.

Rating: +3

GMD (89 total posts | +217 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 7:23AM

RTalent, Just by your post it is obvious that you don't know what you are talking about, but then most anti-gun nuts don't know what they are talking about. I have been carring a gun for most of my life and I am very glad the law is in effect. Yesturday during the monsoon my wife and I went out to do our once a month big shopping, we are both medically retired and get paid only once a month. Since it was raining I put on a rain jacket and for once let the jacket cover my pistol without the fear of being arrested for it being concealed. Before if I wanted to protect my weapon from the elements I had to break the law, but now that law has changed, for the better I feel.
If you think that just because now everyone can carry concealed the criminals will too, WAKEUP, they did that anyway before this law. Laws don't mean anything to criminals, that is why they are criminals.

Rating: +6

PecosPete1 (165 total posts | +371 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 7:30AM

Training is needed! Just like driving a car someone has to teach you. The stupid will shoot themselves and others. This is evolution at work the dumb die. And hopefully they didn't reproduce and the species will be stronger .

Rating: +4

Mr. Richard (99 total posts | +200 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 7:48AM

I guess I'm still trying to figure out what was wrong with it the way it was. If you wanted to carry a concealed weapon you simply took a class and got a permit. What was wrong with that?? I personally don't carry a gun, however my sons do. Both have taken classes and received their permits. My Grandson has also taken the class, but is not of age yet. When he becomes of age he will be a safe and educated owner. Is it that all you who are for the new law just can't pass the test?

Rating: +3

John Citizen (3 total posts | +4 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 7:56AM

I like the new law that is taking affect this week. I think that not having any training is a bad idea thou. The 8hr CCW class is very little training that pretty much covers laws and different situations. With a shooting qualification at the very end of the class. This by no means prepares you for what will happen in a deadly conflict on the street. But I have never meet a criminal that would want to try anything with an armed citizen. Did you know just presenting a firearm in a situation lowers your chance of injury by causing the criminal to flee. And remember felons are not allowed to carry firearms anyway so this laws does not change anything for criminals. As for there being more violence in the streets, I dont see how this will happen. Just because people are allowed to carry now doesnt mean they are going to go around becoming criminals.

Rating: +5

Nick603 (1131 total posts | +3628 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 8:30AM

This is one issue (guns) where either you're for them or against them. I grew up around guns, was an avid hunter, took all the hunter safety courses, an avid target shooter, and at one time a gun collector. Here in AZ, I took a CCW course and also target shoot at the Marksman Inst. Pistol Range II, on Prince Rd.
I'm personally FOR any gun movement upward and onward, as it has been a tough battle through the years due to the anti-gun nuts trying their best to shoot (lol) everything down concerning guns and gun ownership. BUT...I also think that anyone who owns and carries a weapon SHOULD at least take some form of training course.
My weapon is strictly for the defense of my family and myself, and I'm NOT looking to be a cop wannabe or any of that.
So that's how I feel about the whole gun thing; so you anti's can just save your breath with me, I won't waste my time arguing fruitlessly about it.
Those who carry and shoot...enjoy and be safe. See you at the range.

Rating: +10

2948 (169 total posts | +123 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 8:36AM

I don't think this law should take affect untell we do something about the illegals first!

Rating: -11

Jury (1437 total posts | +3581 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 9:28AM

Because the Feds don't do their job and Judge Bolton's ruling of SB1070, just gave the drug cartell's and illegal aliens a free reign to stomp on Unite States Citizens rights.

When Australia banned guns Crime escalated.....

Rating: +6

DEE (293 total posts | +1065 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 9:31AM

At first I thought WHAT IS THIS WOMAN DOING, CHANGING THIS LAW....but thinking about it I now think

1.She has stored rights to own guns-too many laws and it was criminal not to have a permit.

2.It doesn't allow felons to own guns-and criminals don't care anyway.

3.And your more likely to get shot by one of the above than by a law abiding citizen.

4.If you have children take EVERY precaution or don't own a gun.

5.Just because I don't like guns,they intimidate me,other people rights to own them should not be hindered.I think safety classes should still be mandatory...

Rating: +6

DEE (293 total posts | +1065 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 11:03AM

Criminals need to be taught a lesson,I don't think the jail system really teaches them any thing.I do think if they come up upon a unsuspected gun owner they will be mighty surprised,and maybe learn something if they survive.Jury's comment makes a lot of sense!!!
I don't own a gun and I don't care too,but if it's protection for someone else then it should be allowed as by the Constitution.

Rating: +6

Jury (1437 total posts | +3581 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 11:49AM

Our founding Father Thomas Jefferson was wiser far beyound his times;

The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Rating: +6

circlei (42 total posts | +62 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 12:11PM

Well SHOOT rtalent, why stop at making ignorant posts, why not get a t-shirt that says you are unarmed and fear crime? Now that liberty and freedom have been respected and restored for some that choose to pack, there will be a bunch more good folks totin iron that may come to your aid should the wolves recognize you are a sheep for the takin! Better yet, check out the good folks that will gladly share time and knowledge to help you learn about self defense, the nobility of firearms and all the fun you are missing out on.

Rating: +5

Applet (29 total posts | +135 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 12:17PM

Get a life "very liberal." coming at u with a rebuttal is a waste of time cause you will never abandon your liberal notions, ways of thinking, and lunacies.

John Citizen said it best!! Way to go!

Rating: +3

very liberal (196 total posts | -974 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 12:30PM

You know it's a waste of time, because I'm right!! And JC's post is just more lunatic reasoning on the part of you gun nuts!!

Mark my words, it will happen one day, all you gun nuts will be diarmed for good!! And the NRA will go away, for good. Nothing but evil, crazy people there!!

Oh, and applet, I have a life, and it doesn't revolve around guns, and worrying about the right to keep the useless junk!!

But I will continue to push for banning guns in this country, we don't need them!!

Rating: -7

army vet (114 total posts | +418 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 12:30PM

very liberal please come back to this planet ......

Rating: +4

dixiesuzan (363 total posts | -408 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 12:46PM

very liberal - and will you disarm the police and the border guards and the military? Or are they morally superior and dont need to disarm. Maybe they are just more gun nuts (to use your phrasing).

This is nothing new. The Briand-Kellogg Pact was a multilateral Pact between nations for the Renunciation of War. Mr. Kellogg recommended the outright and unconditional renunciation of war and the solution of disputes by pacific means only. This particular pact led to Japans invasion of China in 1932 and Hitlers rise to power in Germany.
Men intent on using guns for crime will use them just as men intent on war will enter into war. Lack of guns was not a solution to the Viking invasion of England.

Ref: THE MULTILATERAL PACT, "RENUNCIATION OF WAR",BY EDWIN BORCHARD (An address delivered at the Williamstown Institute of Politics August 22, 1928)

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/kbbor.asp

Rating: +1

2948 (169 total posts | +123 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 1:02PM

very liberal has got a screw loose and other things wrong with him, but just can't think of them right now! mabe part of KKK.

Rating: +6

very liberal (196 total posts | -974 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 1:16PM

I knew you gun nuts would crawl out of your holes and have some nonsense to say!! And 2948, how do you figure I'm part of the kkk??They are an even bigger bunch of morons than you gun nuts!! I'm opposed to SB1070, it's a racist law, the kkk? I think maybe you have a screw loose!!

Don't woory, the day will come, when all you gun nuts will be disarmed !!!

Rating: -7

2948 (169 total posts | +123 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 1:32PM

We the normal people all think that you are the biggest moron here, you think that just becouse we don't want the illegals here that ARE BREAKING THE LAW you thank WE the normal People are racist. "WRONG"

Rating: +4

very liberal (196 total posts | -974 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 2:02PM

Sorry, 2948, I'm the normal one, back into your hole.........

Rating: -7

army vet (114 total posts | +418 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 2:26PM

Liberal

being a fan of something does not make you a (NUT), if so are there are art nuts, car nuts,sports nut,freedom nuts. It is called a enthusiast. i would never call you liberal whacko. Well maybe i would.

Rating: +3

2948 (169 total posts | +123 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 2:47PM

"Good one army vet", I just don't understand how we are called a racist when the law just wants to take care of the illegals and the legals can stay. and I will call him a liberal whacko, and as for very liberal you are a liberal whacko, mabe this should be your new name.

Rating: +2

Nick603 (1131 total posts | +3628 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 2:59PM

Maybe there's a difference between a "Liberal Whacko", and a "Whacko Liberal"...?!

Is there?

Rating: +4

2948 (169 total posts | +123 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 3:13PM

To me, they are both a noun.

Rating: +2

Wildfire (52 total posts | +104 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 8:31PM

Nick603, I believe the more correct term is "Libtard No-Nuts".

Rating: +1

Darius Fontaine (22 total posts | +28 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 8:38PM

I suggest that anyone who currently possesses a Arizona concealed weapons permit keep it active. The advantages to keeping the permit active includes the priviledge of reciprocity agreements with at least 28 other states in the country. Purchasing a weapon from a licensed firearms dealer also gives you the automatic background check when you hold a current concealed weapons permit which allows you to pay for the weapon and leave without a call in background check to delay things. Maybe now that this law has taken effect, law enforcement will finally develop a little respect for those of us that actually have a permit.

Rating: +4

Darius Fontaine (22 total posts | +28 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 8:56PM

One common trait among all Liberals is that they know everything about everything. Just ask them, they will tell you, except when something goes wrong then they become hauntingly silent. "Very Silent" most certainly believes that only Law enforcement and the Military (under protest because Liberals hate war) should have guns. Just remember that when someone is kicking in your back door at 2:00 in the morning, all you have to do is turn on the bedstand light, pickup the phone and be able to focus on the numbers 911. The Police will be right there to protect you. Hopefully the intruders won't be standing over you as you try to accomplish all of this.

Rating: +1

ne1 (16 total posts | +51 total karma)

7/30/2010 at 10:25PM

I am so tired of hearing the "liberal whacko" cry about gun laws. We get it, you dont like guns. in that case, dont own one! as for the Americans that do practice their right to bear arms, deal with it. Legal citizens, legally owning guns, have nothing to do with crime rates. Criminals do not care about gun laws, they are not practicing their right to bear arms. they are obtaining guns to commit crimes, and no amount of laws will ever prevent that. what these whacko liberals dont realize is that the right to bear arms serves a purpose that will NEVER be over-turned. It was installed in our Constitution in the event that the people of this country would ever need to over-turn the government. Thus not allowing the government to get too powerful. If you remember, that is how the country was born, we over-threw the British government, with our guns! so Very Liberal, pick up a book and educate yourself instead of crying over gun laws.

Rating: +2

very liberal (196 total posts | -974 total karma)

7/31/2010 at 12:21AM

Sorry folks, I'm not the wacko, it's all you gun nuts. You people really think you're protecting yourself?? You'll be killed by your own gun!!

One day, it will be over turned, and all you gun nuts will be disarmed!!

Rating: -4

Jury (1437 total posts | +3581 total karma)

7/31/2010 at 8:49AM

If all of these "Gun Nuts" are disarmed we all will not be living in a free country.

The strongest reason for the
people to retain the right to keep and bear arms
is, as a last resort, to protect themselves
against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Like the oath I took when I was in the service, I will die protecting the Freedom of this country.....

Rating: -1

patman (4 total posts | +3 total karma)

7/31/2010 at 10:14PM

my greatest fear is a concealed weapon owner pulling a gun to stop an in store hold up or perceived street trouble and end up killing me or my family. rest assured, if that happens and i am still alive i will shorten the life of the shooter. and most of you know that more people die from gunshot accidents, then actually defending themselves or others. and most of these accidents happen because of irrational fear. just common scared citizens, bad attitudes and and mistakes. so by all studies and statistics, we are now in more danger of being gunshot than ever before, no matter what you believe about illegals, drug crazed opium smokers, homeless people, CIA hit squads, (oh wait, that may be true) or made up terrorists. i would rather lose my car or wallet than my or my families life or health. end of story.

Rating: -1

very liberal (196 total posts | -974 total karma)

8/1/2010 at 12:10AM

Thank You patman, someone who understands what I'm talking about!!

And jury...you will die, by your own gun, when you pull it out (thinking your Rambo)and it's taken away and used on you!!

Rating: -3

Rodney Dangerfield Jr (323 total posts | +1237 total karma)

8/1/2010 at 11:21PM

Your crazy. I have carried my gun around with me for nearly 20 years now. I delivered pizza in Tucson for a few years in the early 90's. I went to all sorts of shady looking houses in bad neighborhoods all over town late at night to pay for my college education. You would have to be out of your mind to make some of those deliveries without weapon. Make no mistake, there are morons out there that will kill you for $20 bucks and a pizza. I was robbed more than once and managed not to have to shoot anyone. I did stop myself from receiving a horrible beating at the hands of a nice young group of kids out for a late night ball game with their bats. Funny they didn't have any balls or gloves but just bats. In any case once they saw they are approaching a target wasn't as easy as they had anticipated they left, amazing how that works. No worries patman, when you are getting shot, stabbed, or whatever just let everyone know to just run away and save themselves.

Rating: +1

Rodney Dangerfield Jr (323 total posts | +1237 total karma)

8/1/2010 at 11:30PM

I haven't read any stories about a concealed weapon permit holder pulling out a gun and shooting innocent by-standers. I am sure if it had happened our wonderful liberal KVOA would have been the first to let us know about it. You guys need to take note of the decrease in violent crimes over the past 10 years as the rights of gun owners have been restored. Crooks have to think twice before doing something stupid, because it may be the last stupid thing they ever do now.

I was going to post a link for you to review cases and stories where permitted gun holders have saved their families or neighbors from harm but unfortunately they have temporarily suspended their service due to a liberal news paper who has filed suit against 80 conservative blog pages in hopes of extorting money from them. Hopefully it is fairly resolved and the Las Vegas RJ loses its subscription base over this nonsense.

Rating: +2

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